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The District Attorney got this one right. Let her rot like she left Joan and that INNOCENT baby Alex. which makes a complete nonsense of their gun theory.. This woman was not innocent, but she is very good at manipulating people into feeling sorry for her. Are you even aware there are judges, eminent writers, lawyers and TV personalities and countless other ordinary people all of whom steadfastly support her as being innocent and wrongly convicted. Patricia had a violent past and was absolutely positively the killer. If not, how could Andrew have obtained samples of Patricias hair if they apparently didnt meet up in person after Andrews marriage? THE COPS SET HER UP. Cop defends accused. Amina two bullets in the heart.". Highly charged case. Sorry ladiesher hair was in the car and at the scene.she murdered them. DA readily agreed they did not belong to Rorrer, was happy to admit they were never submitted for analysis. After all, justice has been served in the eyes of the law, so why go on demonising her? CHOOSE1s Three Strikes Reform Act needs 500,000 signatures by July 17 to make the November ballot, CHOOSE1 files new initiative to reform Californias Three Strikes law, The First Friday doc premieres this week at the New Parkway. I made the confession on tape that I had rehearsed with the LAPD, said Larry Wright. He gave an audio interview to the Wrong Man investigators when they made a surprise visit to his house, but he declined to appear on camera. We lived close to one another. Have you read the book? If you want to help her tell her to ask God for forgiveness. Were suppose to ignore the actual forensic evidence and forensic opinions because we were told that a cop overheard her claiming she confessed? Why would it be an irony for a person to express his opinion? Unbloody vehicle. The real killer is Rorrer! Search it out and check for yourself. And its been bad. Bully for you if youve read a lot and seen a lot: its meaningless to other posters and adds nothing to your argument for innocence. It seems so, according to you. Im inclined to think both Rorrer and Routier are guilty. And while youre on that list, you can be happy in the knowledge youre not in rarefied company. But it doesnt make a nonsense of her being the shooter, regardless of their speculation. We really thought she was dead all those years. Most of all, Patricia said, she would like a rematch with prosecutor Michael McIntyre. Those that think that Patricia is innocent are simply groping at straws. Those bodies would have been manipulated by something around there. Its nine minutes into the video. A Pittsburgh-area woman missing for over 30 years and declared legally dead several years ago has been found alive in Puerto Rico, authorities in Pennsylvania said on Thursday. Why bother with this site, which isnt for professional criminalists/forensic scientists, if youre going to get so tetchy and rude? Calling her ex because she just likes to stay in touch w peopleLOL! And then in their zealous efforts to show their ire, feel the need to suggest anyone who supports her is deluded.. Whats worse is that shes innocent. DNA testing revealed the blood came from either Joann or her son. That poor child who grew up with no mom for absolutely no reason. Why would it be an irony for a person to express his opinion? Patricia is a evil monster. Youre absolutely right!! Discuss and express opinion; stop short of asserting that those of the other view (that of judge and jury, at least) are ignorant of facts and wrong, and youre right, because by definition its reasonable for lay people to accept the jury verdict. Keep her murdering ass locked up!!! I agree. Its perfectly understandable that one should feel sorry for the victims of this heinous crime. The 5-foot-9-inch-tall Patricia was physically strong, no match for 5-foot-4-inch Joann. The first rule of a murder is motive. Probably by the jeans and the boots. But thats just some of the ammo on Team Patricias battleship. Suzanne Pearson fabricated quotes from Patricia including her claim that Patricia said, Im going to the electric chair upon her arrest because a conviction would boost Pearsons career. The fat cow is guilty as hell and I hope she continues to have the shit kicked out of her in prison every day of her useless life. Addressing Patricia Prue, Judge Robert Bent said the sentence of life without parole was "fitting" since she was a full participant in the crime. Rorrers defenders remind me of a case in my home town There was a killer who confessed, was caught on video committing the murder and was seen committing the crime by an eye witness. (even though hes married and has a baby) Who does that?!! One more thing acquire ALL the facts about this case If you can read. "I want to apologize personally for the fact that my husband wasn't a strong enough human being to admit his wrongs and be able to take his rightful punishment willingly," she said. Look into it. Another former boyfriend said she talked about Andrew frequently and liked to gaze at old photos of him. They allege that the North Carolina resident stealthily drove 500 miles to Pennsylvania and killed out of a sense of deadly indignation. I am sorry it ever happened at all.". The author that wrote the book on the Rutier case donates all the funds from that book to freeing Darlie Routier because the jury wasnt shown a lot of evidence of the medical issues Darlie suffered. Wouldnt that verify Troutmans claim that the husband was arguing with the victim, in a rage? Kidnapped and killed? Youre right about my comments on other sites, but those seem to have an abundance of hate-mongers who feel no need to mince their words hence my retorts to those. Pfeiffer and Burke claimed that police Sgt. What a lame article. Looking at the pictures of the scene, after 4 months of the bodies being there allegedly, they were untouched? Then 31 years old, she had lived a rocky existence. Rorrer killed these two people in cold blood and the jury got it right! Puny policy. I wanted to get out of there.. Just one example. Angry that Joann hung up on her, she stalked her for three days, then broke into her basement and cut the phone line, put a gun to Joanns head as she was placing Alex in the car, and forced her to drive to the rural area. Nailed? Dance defense. She got 12 months of probation for shoplifting at a Walmart in Lexington, North Carolina. The men harbored Yaser Said inside an apartment in Bedford, according to court documents, and he was nearly captured after a maintenance worker spotted him in August 2017. No explanation given. They released a poster of Joann and Alex, noting that the baby had almond-shaped blue eyes, weighed 18 pounds, and was circumcised. For more on the Katrinak murder case, you can watch Autopsy Six: A Fatal Attraction for free on YouTube. At one point Interpol had an extremely similar case in which an individual convinced a friend, who had been his sexual partner several times in the past, to kill the woman he had a baby with, on the grounds that the child is not his and he does not love her but cannot leave because everyone would accuse him of abandoning his child and his family name would be affected. And dance instructor William Jarrett couldnt remember whether she attended his dance class at the club the night of Joanns disappearance. And this was never disclosed to Rorrers Defence. Patrica Owens, Yaser Said's ex-wife, testified before the jury Thursday morning and said why she fled her home with her daughters only to return days before they were They were telling the truth and revealing the type of person she was, a person that definitely would kill out of jealousy and revenge. ), And in another bombshell, Joanns good friend Karen Devine said Joann planned to leave Andrew after the holidays. They portray heavily slanted and biased shows. Irving Police Chief Jeff Spivey hailed authorities for pursuing justice in the case for more than a decade. Had there been a switch? Dont even think about arguing with me until they DNA test that hair and the broken fingernail found on her body; Ill just laugh at you. A federal jury found Yassein Abdulfatah Said, 59, guilty on one count of conspiracy to conceal a person from arrest, one count of concealing a person from arrest and one count of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. DA readily agreed they did not belong to Rorrer, was happy to admit they were never submitted for analysis. The fact that Joanne was found with a hair clutched in her hand that was inconsistent with both her and Patricia (that they conveniently didnt bother to test). There is way too much doubt in this case for my comfort. Exactly Killers can plan all the details and alibis well ahead of the murder while cops must come up with hard evidence, even just to make an arrest. Traupman died in 2016. 5 years prior to all this happening! She is 100% guilty seen 2 programs on this awful murder and read about it as well. I also communicated with Patricia via email to get her input on some matters. And finally, your supercilious comment about Speculative lies Ive perused my previous comments and at no point do I see those words! "This was not a sudden or impetuous act on your part. Patricia Rorrer was a cold woman. Although the prosecution used it as evidence that she was trying to create a false alibi, it actually sounded more like Patricia was simply trying to nail down the facts he had already asserted to her. Its barely visible in the picture. Through that testing, the elderly patient was confirmed to be the same woman locally known in Pittsburgh as a street preacher called The Sparrow who vanished and left her family flummoxed. Plus, two men, her babys father and his friend, testified they saw Patricia at the line-dancing club the night of the homicide. She was born on Jan. 24, 1964, in eastern Pennsylvania and moved back and forth between there and Davidson County, North Carolina. And the point the hair in her hand wasnt tested was because they didnt need it since they had the killer shame on everyone who went along with that. Shame on your for defending a vicious killer. The fact that Jerome was gay was left out of the trial altogether. The jury deliberated for three hours after Thursday's closing arguments. If you subscribe to Hulu and upgrade to Starz (theres a free one-week trial offer), you can stream the Wrong Man episodes about Patricia Rorrer. Not gender neutral. DNA tests proved the blonde hairs were hers. Owens said because of what Said did, she will never get to see her daughters grow up. Thats my life.. Patricia Owens, PS Speculative lies is meaningless. Still, no good leads materialized. WebIn burst a group of men and women with their guns drawn. The Riverside County public defender stated that the court may reduce her first two offences to misdemeanors because they are classified as wobblers. Wobbler refers to a criminal offense that can be classified as either a misdemeanor or a felony. In one entry, she writes that she has plans for people who have messed with her, and that "people will be surprised of what she is capable of," Caledonia County State's Attorney Lisa Warren said. Animals would have for sure. I have not SEEN this report that says no root found is there a picture of it online somewhere? Stop it.. Ls HUe7C22R>_%m~e5?h Most of your comment absolutely astonishes me. There was a push for a mistrial, but a 16-year prison sentence was negotiated instead. Its an opinion learnt from a well-researched book, from documentaries which show and mention a great deal of facts and evidence which was never brought up at her trial. "I'm not sorry we were caught. Warren, who was tearful at the end of the hearing, said she is pleased with the outcome of the case, and that her office was only waiting on the outcome of Allen Prue's appeal. Everyone lies. That documentary points out that, despite the bodies of the two victims supposedly being exposed for several months, their condition remained relatively undisturbed by weather or animal activity. Dame Patricia said she was "deeply saddened" to hear of her former co-star's death. A Texas father one of the FBIs Ten Most Wanted Fugitives wanted for the slayings of his two teen daughters was busted after more than 12 years on the run, the federal law enforcement agency announced. A few fries short of a Happy Meal, that one. Today, Patricia Lynne Rorrer resides in State Correctional Institute at Muncy, a medium and maximum security facility that has the highest rate of cancer of all prisons in Pennsylvania, according to a story from northcentralpa.com. Liesbeth Powers/The What has that to do with the point youre trying to make? The difference between the cases was that the child was not injured and the individual wrote down the details of the plan in a notebook, but otherwise it seems extremely similar to me. It was total shock. In summer, after thawing, there will be small animals eating the body and even turkey vultures, but not so much in the winter. The investigation is a bit out of place, but the DNA test can be altered only if its made just from a pen, because otherwise it is not possible, only if they said they did it and didnt actually do it, which would be quite difficult because it would mean complicity between many persons. But I suppose you havent a clue about that. Patty is my cousin. Im new to the case, but there seems to be a lot of reasonable doubt. Yaser Said is accused of killing his two daughters in 2008. Sorry not sorry. Patricia McCloskey pleaded guilty to misdemeanor harassment and was fined $2,000, while Mark admitted to misdemeanor fourth-degree And Andrews explanation of how the intruder got in through the basement door seemed contrived, according to Grube, who gave an interview to Wrong Man, a 2020 true-crime docuseries from the Starz network, which produced two episodes called The Hang Up about the Rorrer case. Deal refused. There is a term in law called balance of probabilities, which basically means that guilt is assigned when there is a preponderance of evidence that would lead a rational person to conclude that the person did it. Alfey liked to look at model homes, so they decided to stop by an open house that was located at 13810 Redberry St. in Moreno Valley, California. At one point, Owens looked directly at Said and reminded him of all of the abuse they endured, allegedly having a knife pulled on her. Some lawyers call microscopic hair analysis junk science that today wouldnt qualify as evidence in a trial like Rorrers. Black said she was glad Said took the witness stand, giving her the chance to poke holes in his story, exposing him to everyone who has been watching this case. The fact that previous boyfriends noted her obsession with Andrew is very, very telling. She is legally blind, has stage four cancer that has spread to her breasts and her brain, causing her to lose control of her bodily functions, leaving her diapered, and has been given six months to live. Its not logical to say we know the truth unless we seen it for ourselves. She asked to speak with Andrew, who was home during the call; Joann refused. And she would just call out of the blue., According to the Free Patricia Rorrer page on Facebook:I called him to let him know that I was going to the USA finals for a horse show. We've received your submission. She didnt kill those two boys and TX knows, but they made too much noise about it, hence this is probably the real reason that Darlie hasnt been put to death 24-25 yrs later. Yaser had been on the FBIs Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list since 2014, according to CBS. In April 1995, the family buried Joann and Alex in a single bronze casket after a funeral mass at a Bethlehem church. Mr Freeman, Why are youre rude about others who disagree with your OPINION (including jury and appeal judges)? I was so excited that I called everyone, and Joanne picked up the phone and she said Andy is married, and I said I know, then she said we have a baby, and I said yea I know, then she said dont ever call here again. Her husband, Mark McCloskey, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor fourth degree assault and was fined $750. I fail to see exactly why someone cant have an opinion which he/she sees as fact. But hang on You ask that I show care with my wording and show all the tolerance in the world, and by that you presumably mean I should simply ignore those who villify her in the most disgraceful way, probably in the opinion that all readers of their comments will agree, and no one is going to take offence! I come home one night, and shes just gone, and nobody knows where shes at, Bob Kopta, husband of Patricia Kopta, said at a press conference reported by Pittsburgh-based NBC affiliate WPXI. Clifford Freeman, since you are already at the top of the list of deluded people not much room left for anyone with an oversized ego such as you apparently have!! Your position Ive read a lot, Im right; you disagree with me, Ill say youre a moron. Yaser Said is accused of killing his two teenage daughters Amina and Sarah in 2008. But Im sure that was just a coincidence LOL. She held up pictures of her dead daughters. Unfortunately, most people cant distinguish reality from crackpot nonsense, and theyre only more unlikely to do so, given todays social media. She failed miserably to convince me, or anyone else who mattered, of her innocence. The Worldwide Womens Criminal Justice Networks website also points to a bombshell: In 2015, the Justice Department acknowledged that most of the team members from an FBI microscopic hair comparison unit gave prosecutors flawed data from 1980 to 2000 that could have unjustly contributed to a number convictions including Patricia Rorrers. But I agree with a recent comment.. Why not do a paternity case so just that is done and out of the way. Jenkins at one time had hired Allen Prue to plow her driveway. She just stayed in touch with everybody, Kathy Barber said in her interview on NBCs Murder in Lehigh Valley: Keith Morrison Reports in 2017. So lets get going on the recap of the Forensic Files episode A Woman Scorned, along with extra information drawn from internet research: Joann Marie OConnor was born on Oct. 11, 1968, the youngest of Sarah and David OConnors four children. That is not just a circumstantial case, that is both circumstantial and forensic, and it is pretty air tight. Ive found that in nearly every case, those who are firmly of the opinion shes guilty have an extremely limited knowledge of the case theyve watched one (or perhaps more) of the documentaries which make absolutely no attempt to show anything thats in Rorrers favour (theres plenty, if one bothers to look), and worse, revel in exaggerated and speculative scenes, some of which were never even mentioned at her trial. She embraced spontaneity and diligence. Ten months after Joann died he murdered another woman (who looks just like her) and her baby, as well. RR, Watch the Forensic Files episode on YouTube. Anyway, there are thousands of people who differ from that belief, that is why there is so much controversy surrounding this case, and that is why there have been numerous convicted people in the past whove been exonerated on appeal. Theres also the matter of a woman who suddenly remembered she saw Joann with another man at a Food Mart store five days after the disappearance. Dial-a-problem. It might have said no root but could have been wrong. We didnt expect it. Patricia Kopta, Pittsburgh street preacher missing since 1992, found alive in Puerto Rico A woman who was missing for more than 30 years has been found alive and at According to court documents, Yassein and Islam Said had been communicating with Yaser Said since Jan. 1, 2008, to help him evade capture. Phone records dont lie.) But none of those charges ever stuck. How do you explain her not telling the truth to the authorities about the gun and its flaw of only able to shoot once and then jamming up. As for an epilogue on ex-flame Andrew Katrinak, he has moved to Colorado and kept a low profile since the trial ended. Keep up your delusions. Joann was fun, likable, beautiful, always happy, said her sister-in-law Cindy Wiard. Its true that women were more idiots than about men, they had the impression that if they caught a fool to take them as wives, they would settle for life, even today we see that but more diluted, still an exaggerated reason for murder. And yikes, he discovered someone had cut one of the houses phone lines and pried the hinge on the basement door. His defenders claimed that the confession was coerced, the video was grainy/unclear or doctored and the witness was confused and/or unreliable. Which Patricia did not, so who is the real killer? The hearing of the motion for reduction of felony to misdemeanor will be held Tuesday, Oct. 11, at 1:30 p.m. in the Riverside Courthouse at 4050 Main St. in Department 42. Re Routier, the claim that she inflicted a potentially fatal injury on herself by no means indicates another perp: she could have inflicted it in ignorance, as a suicide attempt, or in a semi-psychotic state. If you look at the crime scene picture, only parts of the mother seem preserved. He had an attractive new wife and beautiful baby boy. And Patricia wasnt all edges. Conflicting versions. The obvious, if moot, response to this is to observe that her conviction wasnt based on inaccurate documentaries but on trial. There is so much in your comment with which I can take issue, but Ill try to keep to the salient points. You seem to have a fragile ego. As to her duration on death row, no: inference cannot be made as to her guilt as theres a woman with about the same time (Holberg) and another with almost as much. They returned with a guilty verdict and a sentence of two life terms. Nine. Theres a similar air of confusion connected to the Scott Peterson debacle. I cant lose them, he told the media. A Texas man who carried out the mass shooting at the Cielo Vista Walmart in El Paso, Texas, on Aug. 3, 2019, killing 23 people and injuring 22 more, pleaded guilty today in U.S. District Court to a 90-count indictment, including 45 counts of violating the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Patricia made daily phone calls every day but made no calls at all the day before, of and after Joannes murder as she was traveling and knew her phone could track her location. Both sides agree Joann hung up on Patricia. We should be skeptical of those, like you, who suggest its obvious a jury got it wrong that you know better than 12 people presented with the evidence. They also presented an email from the girls to one of their teachers prior to the murder saying they feared their father would kill them. In your future life in prison I trust that not a day goes by in which you won't revisit your crime.". If documentaries are, as you claim, biased against Rorrer, the obvious question is why. She was always looking for a fight, Gary Gabard told the Morning Call, which noted that he was a head shorter than Patricia. Throughout the process, she heard many community members waiting for the proceedings to be over. Two problems, then: a failure to see your own position as you see others (failure to comprehend irony), and failure to understand the difference between fact and opinion. I comment on these forums because they are the only places offering the opportunity to, hopefully, bring awareness to those whore unfamiliar with this case and her unfair plight. The women testified last week. Remember, killers have the advantage over investigators. "The family has been very patient. And the obvious answer is not as you claim. Sir I would not kill somebody and I definitely wouldnt kill somebody I never met, Rorrer said. Hoist by my own petard! Further, an early FBI report said the hairs found in the car had no roots which contain the DNA suggesting an evidence switcheroo. On Alexs diaper bag, police found strands of the same type of hair from the car. Mr Steve J Yaser Said's ex-wife Patricia Owens gives victim statement after guilty verdict Mother of Sarah and Amina Said calls Yaser Said 'the devil' after a Dallas jury found him guilty. Owens and her sister, Connie Moggio, entered the courtroom together. A correction to the comment above. She had a suitcase packed, Devine said. I dont think so. In a surprise move, Said testified on Monday. Jenkins' family left the courtroom without comment on Friday, but they hugged each other once the sentence was ordered. I mean the husband did do some shady things maybe he was involved? Roughly nine months ago, Interpol contacted the police department that kept her file open. Did you personally attend the trial? I guess the investigators in Pennsylvania managed a quick resolve to a huge case that had a nations eyes scrutinizing their every move! And the fact that Patricia called Andrew even after he married someone else didnt mean she was still carrying a torch for him, according to one of her friends. Patricia and Mark McCloskey, the St. Louis homeowners who pointed guns at protesters, pleaded not guilty Wednesday to weapons and evidence tampering charges. The womans disappearance became a missing person case with the Ross Township Police Department that sat on the shelf, lacking progress, for decades. Oh, and she was so obsessed with him that she started dating and found herself a boyfriend that was not only younger, but much more attractive than Andy? Prosecutors did not seek the death penalty, so Said was automatically sentenced to life in prison with no parole. Its nothing short of a feeble stab hoping to impress but really amounts to splitting hairs, or to put it another way, hot air with no substance. She had money put aside. Patricia complied fully with the original investigation of the crime and wasnt a suspect because none of the blood or fingerprints found at the crime scene matched hers. Judge Richard T. Fields will be presiding over the case and Public Defender Ruby Ramirez will be representing Patricia for the Riverside County Public Defenders Office. "You knew how the abduction would end," Bent said. The Dallas Morning News revealed that Patricia said, "All I can say is there's going to be justice," after waiting for 12 years of pain of losing her children. Patty was soooo obsessed with Andy that she moved away to North Carolina some 5 years before this happened, right? It was just assumed to be crib death. Owens said Said made her a weak woman but that those days are over. The Prues were accused of luring Jenkins, a single mother, from her rural home and then strangling and beating her to death. Or did they? (Ross Township Police Department). And the obvious answer is Ill tell you why (which really is common knowledge). Patricia Prue also expressed remorse for her husband's actions. She would also have no heart when it comes to children, not even her own. I would think if she would have an passed they definitely wouldve started looking somewhere else but there was just too much evidence against her anyway so.. and with forensics the way they are today. WebAmina and Sarah Said were murdered by their father Yaser Abdul Said an Egyptian immigrant on January 1st 2008. Pat had a string of bad relationships in her past and was not happy. He took two tests and there was deception detected in BOTH. Interesting points thanks for writing in (and, yikes, those poor deer that starve to death). I dont even know its Christmas.. I decided to take the toys and hide them so my mother wouldnt see them, said Alfey, who is now 29 years old. Justice is about uncovering the truth. They theorize that Andrew Katrinak framed Patricia and that the hostile phone call between Patricia and Joann actually took place not on Dec. 12 as Andrew said but rather on Dec. 7. I dont understand Partricias defenders pointing to Andrew with the dyed blond hair found at the car and murder scene. And even prosecutor Michael McIntyre, who wrote the book Hair Trigger about the case, acknowledged to Keith Morrison that it was a little odd that the police found blood on the hairs in Joanns car but nowhere else in the vehicle. Marissa Suarez, in the matching brown hat and scarf, and Patricia Todisco, in the darker hat, are seen inside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 (images via FBI court filing). There was widespread speculation that the sisters were shot in an honor killing a practice in some cultures in which men kill female relatives who are thought to have brought shame upon their families. DNA also doesnt lie. Im sorry for the distress this awful business must have caused. On December 12, 1994, Joann answered a phone call from a woman shed never met, Patricia Rorrer, her husbands onetime girlfriend. She killed a mother and child and now has all of you eating out of the palm of her hand about how mistreated she has been. The only record of a call from Patricia to the Katrinak household was on 12/7/94. no blood, no finger-prints and no soil evidence it was as if the car had been wiped clean stated the attending investigating police officer!That itself has to be considered highly suspicious and cast doubt on the hair evidence which WAS found. Perhaps she used more than one gun using another/others for the target shooting than the one she killed with (and others shot with her?) Other loyal friends and associates attested to Patricias kindness toward horses and devotion to her daughter, whom she took along as she worked in stables. I believe this woman murdered Joann and Alex. Yaser Said was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the murder of his two daughters Amina and Sarah Said in 2008. The only thing that has changed since this case is the ability of people to access and proclaim crackpot ideas, conspiracies, and all the rest.